Turning Pain into Purpose, Life After Sexual Assault - Part 2

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In this episode, Blaze Bell shares her story of sexual assault. She and Christina both deliver intimate details regarding their experiences with health care providers and law enforcement officers when seeking services after trauma.

Guest Bio:
Christina Love is an Alaska Native from Egegik village who was raised in Chitina, Alaska. She is a consultant, Recovery Coach and civil and human rights activist, while dedicating the last 7 years to systems change for targeted and marginalized populations in Alaska. She is a formerly incarcerated person in long term recovery who currently works as a Specialist for the Alaska Network on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault (ANDVSA), the state’s coalition of domestic and sexual violence programs. Christina's role focuses on intersectionality with an emphasis on trauma and substance use at ANDVSA. Christina works with programs, agencies, and communities state and nationwide to address the continuum of care for support services through strategic initiatives, substance use screening, training and technical assistance, community-based organization, integrated services, curriculum development, evaluation, assessment, and organizational and community healing. Christina is part of a collective movement that works to end violence, oppression, shame, and stigma through the liberation of education and community healing.

Interviewer Bio:
Blaze Bell is a lifelong Alaskan, Speaker, Singer, and Transformational Coach, who has turned her pain into her purpose. She is on a mission to help others heal, in the ways that she has, from trauma and addiction. Blaze has a popular podcast highlighting healing tools and a new video series interviewing leaders in the healing industry. She is the Board President of Victims for Justice and also frequently works with Standing Together Against Rape (STAR), a rape crisis intervention service in Anchorage, Alaska. As a certified holistic health coach and award-winning singer, Blaze combines her unique skill set to bring the world healing through mindfulness, health, music, and joy.

This project was supported by Grant No.2019-SA-AX-K001 awarded by the Office on Violence Against Women, U.S. Department of Justice. The opinions, findings, conclusions, and  recommendations expressed in this presentation are those of the author(s) and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Department of Justice, Office on Violence Against Women or the International Association of Forensic Nurses.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello. And welcome to today's episode. This podcast is brought to you by IAFN's ISAAC project funded by the Office on Violence Against Women. The International Association of Forensic Nurses is the recognized authority on forensic nursing, promoting universal access to care for impacted by violence and trauma. The Indigenous Sexual Assault and Abuse Clearinghouse project has a mission to offer technical assistance, training and education to providers serving sexual assault survivors in tribal communities. I am your host Blaze Bell, lifelong Alaskan to helping fellow survivors heal from trauma. Today's guest is part two with Christina Love. She is an Alaska native woman from Chitina. She is a consultant, a recovery coach and a civil and human rights activist. Christina is dedicated to systems change and healing centered care through her work with the Alaska network on domestic violence and sexual assault. This episode is part two. She and I both share our experiences with all the care providers who showed up after our assaults. Our hope is that this gives you a greater understanding of a survivor's post assault experience. Now let's dive in.

Speaker 2: 1:27

Hello. Welcome back today. I am doing interview number two, part two with Christina Love I'm Blaze Bell and today's interview is gonna be a little bit different. We are going to dive into care providers who showed up for us after our sexual assaults and how that experience was. And so this is almost gonna be more of a play by play of the assault happens. And then what, and I think that's really important for care providers to hear like what's the experience with all the other agencies that show up. And then also, if there are any survivors listening, getting some ideas of how that might look. So I'll go ahead and start. And I did take notes and please bear with me sharing these stories is really triggering and retraumatizing. And so, you know, it just takes so much courage and I'm so thankful that Christina's willing to be courageous as well to go back to some of these moments. It's not easy, it's not fun, but we both believe it's very, very important to help other people because we know so many people are struggling with this. So, but first thank you Christina for being here today. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you.

Speaker 3: 2:48

And thank you, um, blaze for, for being willing, you know, to do this kind of work and you know, um, for people like us so that we can, we can make a better way or for other victims.

Speaker 2: 3:00

Yeah. Thank you. Thanks so much for having me. Yeah, absolutely. All right. So my assault was a home invasion by a masked man. And because of that, it was, you know, I didn't know who it was. I later found out that I, but at the time I had no idea who was doing this to me, why I was woken up. I'd been sleeping. I was the only one in the house. I was, no one could hear me scream. Um, it was just absolutely terrifying. Like I'll never watch law and order or a scary show again in my life be because I lived one and it was just terror. And so from there, um, at the end of that, I'm not really gonna get into the details of it cuz I'm trying to stay focused on what happened next. And also I don't like reliving it very much. Um, but at the end of that, that assault at the end, he had like put me into bed and said, if you call the police, I'm going to kill you if you get, oh no, he said, if you get out of this bed, I'm going to kill you. So I was like, okay, well I guess I'm gonna stay in bed for the rest of my life.<laugh> and um, he left and it was a, a really creaky big house. And so I was just kind of, I laid there waiting for what felt like a very long time, cuz I didn't know, is he waiting on the stairwell to hurt me? Is he going to kill me? You know, I, I couldn't believe I was still alive at that point. And I was, I remember looking at my closet and deciding cuz I was naked and I was like, what am I gonna, what can I put on on really quickly and then run out of the house as fast as I can. And when I do that, where am I gonna go? It's you know, 11 o'clock in the morning, people are at work. Are there any stay-at-home moms on my block? Like who's home. So I kind of made this whole plan as I was laying there, making sure it had been quiet in the house for a long time. And then I very quite like put on some sweatpants in a sweatshirt, ran as fast as I could outta my house across the street. I knew there was the stay-at-home mom and she opened the door and the look on her face was like nothing I'd ever seen. I didn't know what I looked like at that point<laugh> and she looked terrified and said, is your daughter home? Do you know where she is? Is she okay? And is she had like a toddler? And I said, uh, a man just broke into my house and he raped me and we need to call the cops, check on your daughter please. And she was like, oh my God. You know? And I'd barely even talked to this neighbor before. And so she had me come in and I'm like lock the door, lock the door. And so she's, she calls 9 1 1, I go in the bathroom and that's the first time I see myself and I that's when a lot of emotions started hitting me, cuz up to that point, I was like on pure adrenaline, you know, I was just, my body was in super like how do we survive? And I look in the mirror and I've got two black eyes and there's blood like pouring on the back of my head. There's blood pouring down my legs. Uh, I've got bruises, I've got, um, fingerprints on my, like it was, I've never been in an abusive relationship. I've never been in a fight, a physical fight or altercation. Um, so that was just so shocking and so scary. And then I'm like, oh my God. You know? And um, I'm crying and, but still, still on adrenaline high and like try still in protector mode for this lady's kid. But then also I'm like, don't let her see me like, you know, and so anyway, she calls the cops, I call my mom and the paramedic gets there. And um, and there's just, it's so weird going back to this moment, cuz some of it is fuzzy because there was just such a high crisis time. But um, everyone was really kind. I do remember that. And um, they, so, you know, they were trying to send the cops to try to find this guy, but how was just a mask man? I had no information. Um, and then I remember the I'm saying like don't pee, don't pee until you get to the hospital. And, and I was just like, ah, I don't know if I can. Okay. Okay. You know, and, and one thing that really stood out was my mom and my, my dad got there pretty quickly and I wouldn't let them touch me. I didn't want anyone to me. And as a mom now I, I could see like imagine how upsetting that was for my mom who was, you know, this most loving huggy person who just wanted to like protect me. And I'm just like, don't, don't thank you for being here, but I don't touch me. And uh, I'm still not a hugger. I may, I wonder if that's why or if always been like that. But, um, I just had a huge guard up and so went in the, with the paramedics, went to the hospital and, and I, and then, you know, as the adrenaline was wearing off, I was in a ton of pain. That's when, you know, you're starting to feel all the aches and pains and, and I'm like, I need something, anything give me Tylenol like anything please. And I was starting to just get really distraught and the cops were like, we're not gonna give you anything until you talk to us about what happened and you know, get it, give us a statement. And so I did that to the best of my ability, but there's even some kind of regret looking back like, oh, I wish I would've said this or that, but you know, you're just in this massive crisis. You're not thinking straight. Like during that hour with that man in my house, my brain got completely rewired and everything I believed to be true and real and safe was just shattered. And so for me to piece together things or fill out paperwork or anything like that, it was like not happening. Right. And uh, so I remember getting to the hospital after talking to and the forensic nurses were on their way and it seems like there was like a wing we were in where no one else was around and I just broke down. I was laying on the floor and just the middle of the hallway in the hospital, just sobbing. And a lot of what I can remember just looks on people's face was, and nobody knew what to do. And uh, my parents didn't know what to do. They were just there, you know, they were crying off and on. Um, you know, it was just like a terrifying thing out of a movie. It's like something I just never expected was real. And uh, so I get to the exam room and the forensic nurse is there and I still can picture her. She had this beautiful long curly hair. Her name was Tara Tara. And, um, she was like an angel. She was such an amazing nurse. And it, I was so scared, but she made me feel safe. And um, also an advocate from star standing together against rape the rape crisis center here in Anchorage, an advocate from there showed up. And I can't picture her nor do I remember her name, but she also was, it would've been so much harder without her because she became am this like barrier between me and everyone else, which I really, really needed. And she was saying all these things that I didn't have the strength to say, like leave her alone. Or you can wait, you know, even with the law enforcement, like you can wait to have that conversation or she doesn't need to be talked to like that right now. Or she just needs quiet. Let's give her space to my parents. You know, everyone, she was like my protector and she didn't try to touch me. She like knew that she knew what she was doing and she was a trauma informed like caregiver. And so that was really, really incredible. And uh, you know, after, at, after that is more of a, a blur. And I think like I'm trying really hard to work right now to start to find some, or create some programs for victims after the crisis. Cuz I feel like we have some incredible responders for your moment of crisis. And then I feel like you're kind of left to your own devices, which might be really terrifying. You might not have any support. And um, so you know, having a program with follow up I think would be amazing. So I'm actually working with star right now to create that. And um, any anyway, so victims for justice was another one that helped they mostly in my memory helped with paperwork for the violent, violent crimes, compensation board. And again, that's another thing you handed a pile of paperwork and it's, it's just overwhelming and you're in this, you have PTSD and it's not easy. So they were that made a huge difference and we were able to get funding for lost wages for myself and my mom. Um, they funded my rehab like years later, uh, they fund like a security system and counseling when my perpetrator got out of prison years later. Um, yeah, they really showed up in a big way. And also, you know, I, I just felt very supported by the care providers and um, and sometimes the, the police could be harsh with their questioning, but at the same time I knew like that's their job, you know, they're not here to like, make me feel warm and fuzzy. They're here to solve a crime, you know? So, um, at the same time there was this group of policemen working around the clock cuz they didn't find the guy, my perpetrator until I wanna say like two to three weeks later and he did the crime again to someone else and she saw part of his face and recognized him. And then they were able to piece together like hers and mine and one from like three months before me that was unsolved. And so, you know, it was just, those cops were working around the clock and I remember my mom like taking them at baskets and like, thank you. I know you've got a wife at home and she doesn't see you cuz you're here working so hard on my daughter's case. You're amazing. So, um, that, so I, I really do actually have a lot of affection for police officers. I got to see like the really beautiful side of these men who really wanted to protect and serve. Like they, they were really there and um, working really hard. I will say I had one situation that I wouldn't do again probably, um, where they asked me to come in and um, call the who we thought was the perpetrator and try to like get the confession over the phone and this whole kind of thing. And for me like that, that call still haunts me and I, I wish I hadn't done it. Um, but I wanted to do anything I could to help, especially when I knew there were other victims. And so, you know, that, that for me was pretty traumatizing. We didn't get a confession. I just then got just a haunting phone call that was really quite, quite disturbing. Um, and then the other piece of all of this. So that was all like in the moment of crisis in those first couple weeks, day of mostly. And then beyond that, like star has been really consistent and now this crime was in 2003, so this was quite a while ago. And um, now I work with star a lot. I I'm creating that program with them. I lead support groups and I'm on the board for victims for justice. So it's really amazing to have like this full circle come back and help in the ways that I can. And one thing I found is I, I cannot do the 24 7 uh, crisis work. Like they've asked me to be an advocate and work in these offices. And I just, for my mental health, that's so difficult. And I had a long period of substance abuse that started right after my, um, attack. And that was the first time I was like given a arsenal prescription drugs. Um, and that was kind of the answer to my problems. And I, all of a sudden had sleeping pills, pain pills, antidepressants anti-anxiety, uh, like everything you could think of. And they're like, here you go, good luck go to counseling too. And I ended up getting addicted to those and I just didn't have any coping skills at that point. So then I, you know, then I had this whole period of my life with addiction and where I was now causing harm. I was creating all kinds of new problems for myself and, but I was so stuck in my fear. I felt like I was completely in victimhood. I did not feel like in the empowered person I do today. I just felt like a complete victim. And I felt like everyone should feel sorry for me, cuz I felt sorry for me. And I needed to escape my feelings all of the time in any way I could. And it was just super painful. Um<affirmative> and so part of that ongoing thing was because of the court system, not because of it, it was my choice, but what made this a recurring trauma I will say is the way our justice system is set up, was super challenging. And, and you know, we had this case with this guy with four known victims and going through the process, we did not go to trial, ended up being a plea deal cuz not all the girls wanted to testify, which I understood that alone. Who knows how traumatizing that could have been, but um, the plea deal. It wasn't great. Um, and then it was just like hearings and arraignments and parole hearings probation, or you know, all these things and they would always get continued. And I remember like getting all my strength to go speak at a parole hearing and then that morning it would get continued and I'm like, oh, like it was just the emotional drain for years. And I'm talking about again, this is 2003. I spoke at a parole hearing a few years ago. This year was another, you know, reentry situation. And it's just like this never ending thing. And I, all of us really felt like our justice system was set up for him, was set up for the perpetrators and the focus seemed to be all about him and his reentry and what's most comfortable for him. Where should he go? You know, and the victim, you know, you asking around to these providers and these victim service agencies, a lot of them didn't even really know how much victims' rights were, you know, what the victim's rights were. And I would just get sent from, okay, well, great call this place, call that place, call that place. And I'm just going in these cycles<affirmative> and it was so frustrating, but I had so much strength off and on feeling like the protector for all these other women. And I kind of took on that role and I'm like, I can rally, we're gonna get some answers. We're gonna be empowered. We are all like upstanding citizens in this city where we live. We, I know we've got some kind of rights and we're going to exercise them. And, and that was a part where it seemed like people don't often exercise their rights, which is why they were so like, I don't know how many people can show up at the parole hearing. Uh, nobody knew and I'm like, well we're all victims. And also our spouse wants to come and our parents wanna come. So we're all gonna be there. And they're like, oh, and I remember they had to continue that hearing a few times to find a room big enough. And they were almost annoyed that like, we've never had this many victims show up. I'm like, well, we're showing up. So make room, you know? And uh, it's just all very, very, very intense, very frustrating. Um, but it also felt good to put in that work to find out what our rights were and to show up and be like, no, this isn't gonna be just you and him and a file. This is gonna be all of us together. Uh, cuz this is affecting, you know, and once you've got a group of victims and then you've got obviously their family and good friends and then that Peters out into the community and it's like this, this affects our whole community and we need to be showing as much like grace and um, I don't even know the word we need to be exercising the victim's rights so that, I think that's my story.<laugh> as far as, you know, call 9 1, 1 paramedics hospital cops, forensic nurse, VF, J star. Um, and then the court system. So I do feel like most of these providers were really great. I feel like the court was that the most challenging part. Um<affirmative> but I felt like everyone who showed up like day of really was a good experience for me as far as feeling supported and protected to the best of their abilities.

Speaker 3: 21:19

That is an incredible story. That is really, really incredible. And it, it gives a lot of insight too, like who you are and the past that you have behind this topic. Yeah. I just feel so incredibly proud. Like I was trying not to, to cry several times with an your story. It's really, really amazing. Really amazing. Thank you.

Speaker 2: 21:41

Yeah. So what, what was your experience like?

Speaker 3: 21:45

Um, well, so my experience is a lot of the reason why I am in this work. Um, it was, um, so I mean I'm just, you know, thinking about, um, you know, all the different contacts and I totally agree, like we have a lot of emphasis on acute care and nothing on long term. And so, um, you, I would, I I've never stopped needing an advocate. You know, once I was able to find an advocate that really understood me and not only like tolerated, um, what I was experiencing, but like really celebrated, you know, the different experiences that I was having. Um, so the sexual assault that I'm gonna, um, focus on today, you know, was right in the heart of my addiction. There were sexual assaults before and, and unfortunately they had been sexual assaults after, um, you know, one is as recent, um, has, um, a little over a year ago, you know, that is still too fresh and difficult to talk about. Um, so this one, um, I, I can't think I talked about it before. I forget which, which one I talked about before, but, um, I gone to a flop house and um, I was, um, I was doing heroin and methamphetamine at the time and, um, the person that I was buying it from, made the shot for me. Uh, he was on probation at the time and he didn't want, um, methamphetamine to show up in a system. And so he was using bath salt. And so he had created a shot of heroin and, and bath salt. And I had never done bath salt at that time. I was also in a pretty violent relationship and um, where we were staying, uh, at, at the flop house was down the road, but I had only planned on being there for about 20 or 30 minutes. And so I, um, um, he gave me, um, the shot and I lost consciousness immediately afterwards. And I remember like, uh, coming to a couple of times, um, in the middle of being sexually assaulted and physically assaulted. And, uh, I just remember feeling incredibly weak. Like I, I couldn't, I couldn't stay awake. I, um, I remember another time like waking up and I was on a mattress that was laying on the floor that didn't have any kinda covering on it. And um, like, like looking at my surroundings, it wasn't, uh, it wasn't the same as, uh, what I had remembered before and I didn't have, um, any clothes on and I just felt a lot of pain, a body and it was, it was pretty, um, uh, um, noticeable that there, I couldn't tell like what was from the drugs or, you know, what was from the abuse and, um, that, I didn't know how long that had continued. I, I came to again, um, and this is something that we, that we had talked about out. Like, and sometimes we would joke about like with people when they were overdosing and this is kind of like what it looks like when people are homeless or really, really in their addiction. And that is, you know, that if you overdose that people aren't gonna call 9 1 1 because that would bring the cops. And a lot of them have warrants or a lot of them are on probation. And so it was known like if you overdose, then you're, they're gonna leave you there or to dump you somewhere. And so what had happened was I came, I came to, as they were pushing me out of the back of the van to a ditch, I laid there for a while, but I remember thinking like, I have to get outta here. Like I have to get out here. Like, I, I didn't know how long I had been gone at that point. I had, um, clothes on, but they weren't my clothes. Um, and then I, I remember like climbing outta the ditch and like looking at my hands and, um, like I didn't really recognize my, like I was, yeah, it was dirt underneath my fingernails. And like all of a sudden you're like, you become acutely aware of things that like, you could just feel like you're hypersensitive, you know, like your adrenaline is pumping, you know, like, like I need to, to get out of this. And, um, somehow I ended up finding a ride back, um, to my partner, you know, I knew that I had just been sexually assaulted. I knew that I had been drug. Um, and I knew that I'd been, um, sexually assaulted more than once by multiple people and just like the different flashes. But I was most afraid of my partner who was incredibly violent. And I'm, I, I didn't know if he would be sympathetic or if he would be angry, but I was, I knew that if I didn't have contact sooner or later, he was. So I went back, um, to where we were staying and I explained what happened. He was incredibly mad and blamed me for the sexual assault and told me that it was my fault and, you know, all kinds of other horrible things about, you know, how I must have wanted that to happen and, and assaulted me further. And I ended up, I can't remember if I had, um, somebody drive me to the hospital or if I, I don't remember. Um, but the next thing I know, I'm at the hospital and I was trying to remember if it was, um, the native hospital, but this is, you know, the, the, what I remember is that, um, I recognized a nurse. And so this is, you know, I have to understand at this point I have already had contact with a lot of these systems. So I've been in and outta jail at that time. Um, and I couldn't, I didn't know if I had warrant out for my arrest or not. So contacting the police is not something that's gonna happen. Um, and I'm terrified of the police. Some of my experiences, you know, my, my very first experience with law enforcement was I was 18 years old with a traffic violation. They came to my house, I just gotten outta the shower. I saw the police officers at the door and told them I was, I, I said, one minute, I'll be right back and went to go get changed. Um, I got pulled over for not having my insurance on me. And I didn't think that was, uh, something that you could be arrested for. Like, I was 18 at the time. And I told the officer that I would be right back and I went downstairs and the other officer kicked the door down and tackled me while I was naked. And they ended up tasing me. They didn't let me, um, put a bra on or underwear or shoes. So I ended up going in this like oversized shirt, you know, that was like my very first encounter with law enforcement. Like, so my brain was like this, they can't be trusted. Like law enforcement means harm plus, you know, um, I mean, plus living in that, um, lifestyle, you know, you're, you're terrified coming into contact with law enforcement. Cause that means that you're gonna go to jail, which means that you're gonna detox, um, on this cement floor, you know, and there's not gonna be any help. Um, and you know, that time I was spending a lot of time in isolation because I would just have these enormous, like, um, uh, emotional responses. I didn't, you know, they were, it was just full rage. I didn't understand that that's a very normal reaction to trauma at the time. So I get to the hospital and, um, you know, I've told them about the sexual assault. I'm having a difficult time explaining, um, you know, and I'm in my mind, I'm like, okay, so this is, this, this injury was caused from my partner before and later, but then it's all confusing, like what was caused from them. And so I'm just trying to focus on the sexual assault. Um, and then I it's, I found out when I went, um, to my partner, that I had been gone for three days, I didn't know that I had been unconscious for three days in, uh, the flop house without food, uh, or water, and also without drugs. And so I was going into detox and, um, as soon as, so there was a, there was another nurse that recognized me from before the last time I had seen her had come in and I had really bad absces. And so right from injecting, I was an IV user. And I mean, and when you were there for drugs, like they treat you completely different, completely different. And so I remember, you know, and this was, I chose this memory because it, you know, on top of everything else, I will never forget how to you feel they did bring in, uh, law enforcement really, like, all he could say was that if I hadn't been there, then it wouldn't have happened, then I should have never put myself in that situation. Like, what would you expect? You know, when you're using drugs or when you're hanging out with criminals and this is that kind of behavior. And, um, and I, I, it got to a place where I couldn't really even talk anymore. I was so sick and I was, um, I had grown up on the floor. I remember they had stepped outside and they were talking and, and the nurse ended up coming in and she threw the towel at me and told me to clean it up myself. Like, I Couldn't even, um, imagine. I mean, and they essentially told me that it was gonna be my word versus their word and that people weren't gonna believe me. And then we could, we could continue to go through the process, but a lot of these cases don't get picked up and, you know, and it's completely, and they just explained that, you know, it's up to the, should take the case and not, uh, but they see a lot of cases like this and essentially, like, it isn't really worth their time. Like, and I just,

Speaker 2: 30:54

Let me ask, how did it make you feel, um, the way they were treating you? Like, what thoughts went through your head? Did you feel like their right? I deserve this. Did you think like, am I not a human or no, I don't. Or

Speaker 3: 31:09

I was back in the same hospital. Gosh, I don't remember how long after that. Um, for UN attempted suicide, you know, and that, you know, and I remember at the time feeling like, like, I can't even kill my like, and well, the other thing that was happening too, so they had asked if they could call an advocate and I was like, what's an advocate, you know? And so they explained, um, the services, but at that time, like the, uh, law enforcement had brought me to awake, which is the local domestic violence program several times, but they wouldn't take me because I was under the influence or, you know, when they, the time that they did take me after, uh, my partner had hit me in the face with a two by four, my jaw was wired shut. Then, then I was, I was using drugs and I was selling drugs. Or even when I wasn't, then I had this really, uh, and I had, um, this, this adverse reaction to any type of authority, like anything that reminded me of, of my partner and I, and I, like, I understand now that wasn't something that I could control, you know, so a lot of the work that I do today and the position that I'm in is to, um, let people know, you know, the different, you know, at that time, these, you know, these were isolated incidents of violence on top of an entire, like lifetime of violence, you know, you know, from, you know, from living in the village, you know, from my earliest, um, experiences of sexual violence, you know, being an early childhood all the way up into youth and, um, you know, and, and, and all the different ways that you learned to survive in the, those kinds of experiences. Um, and, you know, and, and my interactions with these systems that were designed to help is that not only did they not have help, but they compounded the problem and they made it a lot worse. Like I just felt, um, you know, that, uh, that rejection and, you know, it's, it's, it's not just the way that people like will look at you and talk to you, but it's like how you feel in their presence. Like I ju I felt like I was below nothing, like absolutely below nothing. And, you know, and, and now as, um, um, as an advocate, you know, working in this field, like, I am so incredibly grateful to, to know that perspective and also to know what it feels like when you sit with somebody who sees you, like it can be, that's simple.

Speaker 2: 33:43

Yeah. Oh my gosh, thank you so much for sharing all of that. I know that's not easy. And that sounds just really terrifying. Every, every part of it. And I think shame is just one of the, the worst emotions. And I feel like that's what I was hearing. A lot of that, that shame was kind of being put on you by the people around you who you'd hope were there to help you. And instead it was kind of like, well, it's your fault.

Speaker 3: 34:13

Yeah. Uh,

Speaker 2: 34:15

But I also

Speaker 3: 34:16

Mm-hmm,<affirmative> sorry. Yeah. I think that if, um, if they hadn't known prior history about me, if we were just there focusing on the sexual assault, it would be completely different, but because drugs are there, there are so many assumptions about people who use drugs, about people who are experiencing homelessness. Um, you know, about the way that you look and like that I didn't have anybody that I could call, you know, so that it's like without that other layer accountability, which is why it's so important, you know, that there are advocates, like for people who don't have anybody who can be there and who can explain these things that are, you know, like that you're, there's so much science, like your brain doesn't work like the same way when we're in trauma. Um, yeah. And so I, I think it's, I love that we have this contrast between the, you know, the two of us could say, like, this is the experience that any, you know, um, and this experience is something that anybody could have as well, like that, that, um, which is why it's so important, you know, that we step back and look at how things are, you know, how systems are serving people and asking systems to change, to fit people, rather than having people change to fit the systems that they're trying to.

Speaker 2: 35:23

Yeah. Yeah. I love the contrast of the stories. And I also think it's amazing that you and I are both sitting where we are today and, uh, we're both doing all we can to help other victims and other survivors move through this, um, process. And I think you're such a huge advocate and inspiration to so many people out there right now who are struggling and who are you 10, 15, 20 years ago. And they can look at you and go, oh my God. I never thought that could be possible for me, but there it is. And, and that's part of too why I feel so, like, it's so important to me to be a voice for survivors, because I don't have a lot of shame and guilt because of, you know, the way my experience went. And I feel like, okay, yeah, I have a lot of PTSD and I have flashbacks and I still have anxiety and things that come up, you know, it's not like it was easy to go through, but since I don't have a big layer of it's your fault, I feel like that empowers me to step up and be a voice for others who can't find their voice yet. And that's really important to me. Um, but the fact that you can do that too, is just, it's amazing. So

Speaker 3: 36:43

Yeah, like if we're talking about marital rape, if we're talking about a child who is re by stranger, like same things, like no one, no one, no one deserves to be harmed. No one, absolutely not. And, and the other beautiful thing is that, um, that recovery is possible. No matter what, like I, you know, I, I mean something that, um, will, I know that we will be able to talk about at another time, is this idea of, you know, healing centered care, you know, and that it, trauma inform incredibly important. I want people to know about all the ways that people are harmed and the multiple layers of trauma that people can have, including societal abuse and oppression and systemic abuse, and some, you know, some of the things that I was talking about today, um, but that we are so much more than that. We are so much more and asking people to look at, you know, all of the gifts and the abilities and the talents that not only helped us survive. Um, but also like live this life. That's totally like, I didn't, I didn't know that like existed for people who struggle with addiction, um, or for people who have like lifetime experiences of trauma or incredible, like, um, PTSD, like with a capital P like, yeah, we really like that. You, you can, like, you can, um, you know, dream of this life and, and live it and like, see beyond the pain and the fear, like, and we do it all. Like, you know, whether it's like an interview that we're terrified to do, like voice, still show up, can't leave the house. Like, yeah. I remember times like, couldn't let people in the eye, couldn't leave people, couldn't leave the house, couldn't get in the shower, you know, couldn't do the dishes get dressed. I couldn't imagine holding a full-time job. Like none of those things. And it, it just it's like, you don't have to make any big decision. It's just like, whatever's right in front of you. One tiny thing at a time. Yes. You look back like over the years, how it all builds. And, and not that, like, I wouldn't say, I mean, for, you know, for the healing journey, I would say like, things are still hard and they never stop being hard, but you become stronger and you become more able to hold it all. And, um, to accept it in, in a way that I didn't think, like, I love that when you, I remember the first time too, that I looked at myself in the mirror and didn't recognize myself, like after that, it was the first time. Yeah. I'd gone to the bathroom. And I, yeah. Like I remember that I didn't, I didn't recognize my own face in the mirror. And I, and, and there was like the sense of like, who is this person now? Yeah. Um, and then coming to know, like, I feel like there's so many, um, like what trauma is, is it that it changes everything and there's this grieving process of like letting go of whoever I was before and really embracing who I get to be now and, you know, creating like who I wanna be, you know, being very intentional about, you know, what kind of a mom or a friend or employee, you know, do I wanna be, um, and not, not because it's like, not because despite or spite of<laugh>. Yeah, yeah,

Speaker 2: 39:53

Yeah. I think that's beautiful. And I think we need to do a part three. That's just all about healing, all the healing tools that we've used and that we've used with the people we've worked with over the years, other survivors. I think that would be amazing. Thank you. I think this is a great point to stop. Um, you know, we both shared all these parts of our experience and, um, again, just thank you for the, uh, this is never easy stuff to talk about, but again, you know, we, we can't help others. We can't find solutions if we're not willing to talk about the problems. And so I'm really grateful. Thank you.

Speaker 3: 40:28

Wow. Thank you so much. Thank

Speaker 1: 40:29

You for listening to part two today, this podcast is made possible by funding from the Office on Violence Against Women. The opinions, findings, conclusions, and recommendations expressed in the presentation are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Department of Justice, the Office on Violence Against Women or the International Association of Forensic Nurses. If you would like to connect with an advocate after listening to episode, please call 800-656-HOPE that's 800-656-4673. To be routed to an advocate in your area, 24 7, or go to rainn.org, R A I N N.org for more info live chat.